Discussion:
The Quran is the delight of the heart
(too old to reply)
Kurt Nicklas
2008-10-16 22:17:00 UTC
Permalink
The Quran is the delight of the heart
But proselytizing on alt.atheism is forbidden.
Then don't do it.
He doesn't.
Oh, that's right....you only permit proselytizing for ATHEISM!
Proselytize, v.t: To convert to some religion, system, opinion, or the
like.
So the atheists in this group aren't trying to convince others of the
correctness
of their belief system?

How long have you been reading this group??
Hmm.  That would require atheism be a religion, system or opinion.  
Closest that would come to being applicable would be if atheism were an
opinion, but in fact it's pretty much the opposite of that, it is the
state of _not_ having a particular opinion.
How the hell does one proselytize for that?
I don't agree with the man, but let him talk, Blibo.
Indeed, let's let him talk.  alt.islam sounds like a good place for it.
DanielSan
2008-10-17 02:55:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt Nicklas
The Quran is the delight of the heart
But proselytizing on alt.atheism is forbidden.
Then don't do it.
He doesn't.
Oh, that's right....you only permit proselytizing for ATHEISM!
Proselytize, v.t: To convert to some religion, system, opinion, or the
like.
So the atheists in this group aren't trying to convince others of the
correctness
of their belief system?
Atheism is not a belief system.
Post by Kurt Nicklas
How long have you been reading this group??
Longer than you have, sparky.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* Can God create a Thai dish so spicy that even He *
* can't eat it? *
****************************************************
Kurt Nicklas
2008-10-17 09:40:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
The Quran is the delight of the heart
But proselytizing on alt.atheism is forbidden.
Then don't do it.
He doesn't.
Oh, that's right....you only permit proselytizing for ATHEISM!
Proselytize, v.t: To convert to some religion, system, opinion, or the
like.
So the atheists in this group aren't trying to convince others of the
correctness
of their belief system?
Atheism is not a belief system.
As it's practiced in this group it certainly *is.
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
How long have you been reading this group??
Longer than you have, sparky.
Prove it.
DanielSan
2008-10-17 12:51:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
The Quran is the delight of the heart
But proselytizing on alt.atheism is forbidden.
Then don't do it.
He doesn't.
Oh, that's right....you only permit proselytizing for ATHEISM!
Proselytize, v.t: To convert to some religion, system, opinion, or the
like.
So the atheists in this group aren't trying to convince others of the
correctness
of their belief system?
Atheism is not a belief system.
As it's practiced in this group it certainly *is.
Nope.
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
How long have you been reading this group??
Longer than you have, sparky.
Prove it.
Why?
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* Can God create a Thai dish so spicy that even He *
* can't eat it? *
****************************************************
Kurt Nicklas
2008-10-18 01:17:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
The Quran is the delight of the heart
But proselytizing on alt.atheism is forbidden.
Then don't do it.
He doesn't.
Oh, that's right....you only permit proselytizing for ATHEISM!
Proselytize, v.t: To convert to some religion, system, opinion, or the
like.
So the atheists in this group aren't trying to convince others of the
correctness
of their belief system?
Atheism is not a belief system.
As it's practiced in this group it certainly *is.
Nope.
Yep.
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
How long have you been reading this group??
Longer than you have, sparky.
Prove it.
Why?
And here I thought you were prepared to prove your assertions. Silly
me!

Oh, that's right....you're an atheist and you rely on faith alone!
DanielSan
2008-10-18 02:04:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
The Quran is the delight of the heart
But proselytizing on alt.atheism is forbidden.
Then don't do it.
He doesn't.
Oh, that's right....you only permit proselytizing for ATHEISM!
Proselytize, v.t: To convert to some religion, system, opinion, or the
like.
So the atheists in this group aren't trying to convince others of the
correctness
of their belief system?
Atheism is not a belief system.
As it's practiced in this group it certainly *is.
Nope.
Yep.
Explain.
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
How long have you been reading this group??
Longer than you have, sparky.
Prove it.
Why?
And here I thought you were prepared to prove your assertions. Silly
me!
How should I go about proving that I've been reading alt.atheism for a
very long time?
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Oh, that's right....you're an atheist and you rely on faith alone!
Faith...on what?
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* Can God create a Thai dish so spicy that even He *
* can't eat it? *
****************************************************
Kurt Nicklas
2008-10-18 06:51:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
The Quran is the delight of the heart
But proselytizing on alt.atheism is forbidden.
Then don't do it.
He doesn't.
Oh, that's right....you only permit proselytizing for ATHEISM!
Proselytize, v.t: To convert to some religion, system, opinion, or the
like.
So the atheists in this group aren't trying to convince others of the
correctness
of their belief system?
Atheism is not a belief system.
As it's practiced in this group it certainly *is.
Nope.
Yep.
Explain.
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
How long have you been reading this group??
Longer than you have, sparky.
Prove it.
Why?
And here I thought you were prepared to prove your assertions. Silly
me!
How should I go about proving that I've been reading alt.atheism for a
very long time?
That's your problem, Daniel. You made the assertion.

Prove it.
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Oh, that's right....you're an atheist and you rely on faith alone!
Faith...on what?
Don't know the meaning of the word, Daniel? Look it up. Maybe your
momma can help.
DanielSan
2008-10-18 06:54:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
The Quran is the delight of the heart
But proselytizing on alt.atheism is forbidden.
Then don't do it.
He doesn't.
Oh, that's right....you only permit proselytizing for ATHEISM!
Proselytize, v.t: To convert to some religion, system, opinion, or the
like.
So the atheists in this group aren't trying to convince others of the
correctness
of their belief system?
Atheism is not a belief system.
As it's practiced in this group it certainly *is.
Nope.
Yep.
Explain.
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
How long have you been reading this group??
Longer than you have, sparky.
Prove it.
Why?
And here I thought you were prepared to prove your assertions. Silly
me!
How should I go about proving that I've been reading alt.atheism for a
very long time?
That's your problem, Daniel. You made the assertion.
Prove it.
Why should I need to?
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Oh, that's right....you're an atheist and you rely on faith alone!
Faith...on what?
Don't know the meaning of the word, Daniel? Look it up. Maybe your
momma can help.
I know the meaning of the word, ass. I am trying to figure out,
however, why you assume that I have the kind of faith you're thinking about.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* Can God create a Thai dish so spicy that even He *
* can't eat it? *
****************************************************
Kurt Nicklas
2008-10-18 07:11:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
The Quran is the delight of the heart
But proselytizing on alt.atheism is forbidden.
Then don't do it.
He doesn't.
Oh, that's right....you only permit proselytizing for ATHEISM!
Proselytize, v.t: To convert to some religion, system, opinion, or the
like.
So the atheists in this group aren't trying to convince others of the
correctness
of their belief system?
Atheism is not a belief system.
As it's practiced in this group it certainly *is.
Nope.
Yep.
Explain.
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
How long have you been reading this group??
Longer than you have, sparky.
Prove it.
Why?
And here I thought you were prepared to prove your assertions. Silly
me!
How should I go about proving that I've been reading alt.atheism for a
very long time?
That's your problem, Daniel. You made the assertion.
Prove it.
Why should I need to?
My, you *are* sounding defensive, aren't you?

Not used to having *your* assertions challenged, are you?

Next time you challenge someone to prove there is a God and they
say 'Why should I need to?' and you have the least little temptation
to call them intellectually dishonest I do hope you'll remember our
little conversation here.

You won't forget, will you?

{snickers}
DanielSan
2008-10-18 07:14:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
The Quran is the delight of the heart
But proselytizing on alt.atheism is forbidden.
Then don't do it.
He doesn't.
Oh, that's right....you only permit proselytizing for ATHEISM!
Proselytize, v.t: To convert to some religion, system, opinion, or the
like.
So the atheists in this group aren't trying to convince others of the
correctness
of their belief system?
Atheism is not a belief system.
As it's practiced in this group it certainly *is.
Nope.
Yep.
Explain.
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Post by Kurt Nicklas
How long have you been reading this group??
Longer than you have, sparky.
Prove it.
Why?
And here I thought you were prepared to prove your assertions. Silly
me!
How should I go about proving that I've been reading alt.atheism for a
very long time?
That's your problem, Daniel. You made the assertion.
Prove it.
Why should I need to?
My, you *are* sounding defensive, aren't you?
You need your ears checked.
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Not used to having *your* assertions challenged, are you?
Actually, my assertions are challenged often.
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Next time you challenge someone to prove there is a God and they
say 'Why should I need to?'
Sure, that is their prerogative. I see no need to believe them,
however, nor do I feel the need for you to believe what I say.
Post by Kurt Nicklas
and you have the least little temptation
to call them intellectually dishonest I do hope you'll remember our
little conversation here.
I don't have any temptation to call them intellectually dishonest if
they say that they don't want to provide evidence for their assertions.
Post by Kurt Nicklas
You won't forget, will you?
{snickers}
It seems you really don't know me very well, do you?
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* Can God create a Thai dish so spicy that even He *
* can't eat it? *
****************************************************
Kelsey Bjarnason
2008-10-19 17:12:58 UTC
Permalink
[snips]
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Atheism is not a belief system.
As it's practiced in this group it certainly *is.
How does one "practice" a lack of belief in something? How do you
"practice" your (presumed) lack of belief in pixies?
Kurt Nicklas
2008-10-20 23:38:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
[snips]
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Atheism is not a belief system.
As it's practiced in this group it certainly *is.
How does one "practice" a lack of belief in something?  
Ah, the old "atheism is a lack of belief" hysteria. What a hoot!
Lord Vetinari
2008-10-21 02:44:42 UTC
Permalink
"Kurt Nicklas" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:5d79e8bf-5fff-4bc7-8e9f-***@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
: On Oct 19, 1:12 pm, Kelsey Bjarnason <***@lgisp.net> wrote:
: > [snips]
: >
: > On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 02:40:27 -0700, Kurt Nicklas wrote:
: > >> Atheism is not a belief system.
: >
: > > As it's practiced in this group it certainly *is.
: >
: > How does one "practice" a lack of belief in something?
:
: Ah, the old "atheism is a lack of belief" hysteria. What a hoot!

Hiya Krank! You're a real soup sandwich, son.

I think you get too upset when you don't get it your way. Makes me smile,
it does.
Kurt Nicklas
2008-10-21 11:33:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lord Vetinari
: > [snips]
: >
: > >> Atheism is not a belief system.
: >
: > > As it's practiced in this group it certainly *is.
: >
: > How does one "practice" a lack of belief in something?
: Ah, the old "atheism is a lack of belief" hysteria. What a hoot!
Hiya Krank!  You're a real soup sandwich, son.
I think you get too upset when you don't get it your way.  Makes me smile,
it does.
Ah, yet another fool who thinks he simply "lacks belief".

So are you like others in this group who considers his dog an atheist?
Kelsey Bjarnason
2008-10-21 16:42:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
[snips]
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Post by DanielSan
Atheism is not a belief system.
As it's practiced in this group it certainly *is.
How does one "practice" a lack of belief in something?
Ah, the old "atheism is a lack of belief" hysteria. What a hoot!
What hysteria? That's what atheism *is* - a lack of belief in gods.
Which part of this don't you understand?
Kurt Nicklas
2008-10-28 21:15:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
[snips]
Disbelief covers both active - "there ain't no such thing" and passive
- "there might be, but I don't buy it" - conditions.  You seem focused
on the former, while in fact the latter is closer to the truth.
Disbelief covers a case where you've examined evidence or heard
assertions
and you've decided - for what ever reason - to disbelieve the claims.
"disbelief... means to disbelieve".  Yes, how deep, how insightful.  Now
try reading what I wrote, where I point out, with a lengthy explanation,
the difference between active and passive disbelief.
Can a dog be an atheist? Can a rock be an atheist?

Atheists in this group have made just those claims, since
dogs and rock also "lack belief" in God.
Kurt Nicklas
2008-11-03 23:48:10 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:33:33 -0700, Kelsey Bjarnason
Post by Kelsey Bjarnason
[snips]
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Can a dog be an atheist? Can a rock be an atheist?
Absolutely.  In fact, since they (presumably) have no capacity for
theistic beliefs, then of necessity they are without theistic beliefs.
I would say that such a person or animal cannot be called "atheist" any
more than "theist".  The question simply does not arise.
I said they are _trivially_ atheist.  I even went to some length to
differentiate this from their being _informed_ atheists.
Does a rock hold a belief in Republican ideology?  No - it lacks the
capacity to do so.  Thus it is not republican; it is arepublican.  Not by
choice, not as an informed position, but simply through lack of
republican ideologies.
Same deal here: the rock _cannot_ hold theistic ideologies, thus it does
not have them; it is atheist.  Again, not as an informed choice, but
simply as a matter of necessity.
Question: can one be said to hold any philosophical position if one des
not have the intellectual capacity to make some sort of decision in
favour of said belief?
Question: are you capable of reading?
Question: are you capable of thinking?
Question: if the answer to both of those is "yes", then why are you
asking about something *holding* a philosophical viewpoint, when the
whole point of what was said was precisely that it is *not* holding a
philosophical viewpoint?
To put it another way, can a severely mentally
disabled person ever be counted as either a believer or an atheist if he
is incapable of holding, postulating or understanding even the most
basic assertion?
Absolutely.  If he cannot understand the concept of gods well enough to
adopt a belief in them, then he has no such beliefs.  What do you call
someone without theistic beliefs?  Right: an atheist.
Why you find this so hard to cope with, I'm not sure.  It's about as
simple a proposition as one can get around here.
The importance of this, is that kids who were never taught to be
theist, remain as atheist as the day they were born.
Of course, if this were true then there would be no theists.

Kelsey Bjarnason
2008-10-19 17:11:55 UTC
Permalink
[snips]
Post by Kurt Nicklas
Oh, that's right....you only permit proselytizing for ATHEISM!
Proselytize, v.t: To convert to some religion, system, opinion, or the
like.
So the atheists in this group aren't trying to convince others of the
correctness
of their belief system?
By definition, they cannot be trying to convince others of the
correctness of their belief system when discussing atheism, as atheism is
not a belief system.
Post by Kurt Nicklas
How long have you been reading this group??
About, oh, 8 years. Maybe more.
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